The NEW 500 OSSM

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The NEW 500 OSSM

Postby Rattler » Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:26 am

Need I say more? Well of course I'll have to as you guys start asking questions... :thumbs up:

450 Bushmaster - Bush league...
50 Boewulf - More like a baying donkey...
458 SOCOM - SoCommon...
500 Smith & Wesson - About to learn a lesson!!


Time for some REAL 50 caliber power! The 500 OSSM is on the move!

Far into development, dies are being cut right now for reloading. More info will become available as Oly moves forward.
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Re: The NEW 500 OSSM

Postby ChrisB » Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:47 am

Will this fit in the standard AR 15 receiver or Oly's new version that accepts the 250 cartridge? Will ammo be commercially available? More importantly when will we get pics?
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Re: The NEW 500 OSSM

Postby Tim Z » Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:50 am

Rattler,

Stop it right now! :bang:

:bang: :bang: :bang: This is like taking a whole class of 1st Graders to the Candy Store and telling them they can only look and not eat the candy. :bang: :bang: :bang:

We would really appreciate pics and specs, pretty please :D
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Re: The NEW 500 OSSM

Postby c_bass16 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:58 am

Any reason we stepped up to the 500 when it seems the 6.5 OSSM is what I've been hearing people want.
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Re: The NEW 500 OSSM

Postby Rattler » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:34 am

The 500 OSSM will function in a standard AR lower. No need for the UMAR system.
I have a print in hand but have been asked to hold off for now. Dies are forthcoming from Hornady, who are very excited about this project as well.

As a bit more of a tease -
    The cartridge is based on a 300 WSM.
    The base of the cartridge is about .015" bigger than the 50 Beowulf, and is slightly longer giving it a greater case capacity.
    Straight tapered case, no shoulder.
    No rim like the 500 S&W, so easy feeding.
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Re: The NEW 500 OSSM

Postby Rattler » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:40 am

c_bass16 wrote:Any reason we stepped up to the 500 when it seems the 6.5 OSSM is what I've been hearing people want.


A couple of reasons. Not the least of which is that the big-bore calibers fall outside of the Patent restrictions on the short/fat cartridge concept established by Rick Jameson. This means, Oly pays no royalty.
Secondly, while people say they "want" a 6.5, there is no factory loaded or SAAMI approve cartridge, and having experienced this process with the 300 OSSM, its not something that Oly wants to take on right away.
The 500 is SO easy to make (cut 300 OSM to length, de-burr, load, shoot - and Hornady is excited about the opportunity, and dies are in the works.
Also, the 6.5 just has not developed the number of requests that a lot of people think it would/should in the WSSM series. Lots of buzz, few actual requests. Lots of people "want" things today, but few people can afford them, and the 500 will appeal to a much broader base of customers, most especially those in the mid-west where this will qualify for most states shotgun only restrictions - a market Oly wishes to focus on.

There's a few thoughts that come to mind right away.
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Re: The NEW 500 OSSM

Postby John A. » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:55 am

Tagged for updates.

I'm really looking forward to seeing a picture of all of the bullets that Olympic Arms is producing side by side with the new 50 awesome thrown in there somewhere for size comparison.
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Re: The NEW 500 OSSM

Postby ChrisB » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:05 am

So handloads/reloads only planned at this time?
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Re:

Postby Globemaster » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:06 am

Rattler wrote:The NEW 500 OSSM ... Need I say more? Well of course I'll have to as you guys start asking questions

so what model(s) and/or configuration(s) will Olympic Arms be offering this 'New' caliber in? K16, K8, or _______ .
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Re: Re:

Postby ChrisB » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:14 am

Globemaster wrote:
Rattler wrote:The NEW 500 OSSM ... Need I say more? Well of course I'll have to as you guys start asking questions

so what model(s) and/or configuration(s) will Olympic Arms be offering this 'New' caliber in? K16, K8, or _______ .


Wonder how it would perform in an SBR for CQB? Too much round for the intended purpose of the SBR?
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Re: Re:

Postby Rattler » Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:44 am

Globemaster wrote:
Rattler wrote:The NEW 500 OSSM ... Need I say more? Well of course I'll have to as you guys start asking questions

so what model(s) and/or configuration(s) will Olympic Arms be offering this 'New' caliber in? K16, K8, or _______ .


There will surely be carine configurations, and i doubt anything longer than an 18 or 20" bbl.

It is still based on the WSSM component part system, but that causes no limitations with regards to configuration. I'm anxious to see it in an SBR configuration as well.
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Re: The NEW 500 OSSM

Postby ChrisB » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:14 pm

This is like being a kid on Christmas eve and your parents telling you about how great your toys are going to be when you open them.... tomorrow.
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Re: The NEW 500 OSSM

Postby kurthuhn » Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:02 pm

My ears just perked up! A big bore AR has been on my list for a while.

Will we be able to order barrels and bolts/carriers to build our own?
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Re: The NEW 500 OSSM

Postby jerry » Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:41 pm

Very Cool
Looking forward to more info and ballistics
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Re: The NEW 500 OSSM

Postby Ken73 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:30 pm

kurthuhn wrote:My ears just perked up! A big bore AR has been on my list for a while.

Will we be able to order barrels and bolts/carriers to build our own?


Same here, I was just on the verge of ordering a 450 Bushmaster upper, even. Rattler, can you give me enough reason not to buy it considering I can drive up to Brenham and pick up ammo for a 450 Bushy pretty cheap? I do love my Oly's but... if I can't find ammo easily it's going to be tough.
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Re: The NEW 500 OSSM

Postby Hoot » Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:45 pm

I'd guess you already know the powder capacity of the WSM case, cut to length appropriate for the caliber design. How many more grains of H2O does it hold over the 50 Beowulf case, for the same bullet? I'll assume enough to make it worth pursuing since it would make the power of the 50B look like a "baying donkey". That's exciting. Heaven knows, the Oly BCA and barrel extension are beefy enough to be up for the task. I've said it before in other forums, the BCA and barrel extension in your WSSM/OSSM are the most impressive engineering part of the entire design. I take it you didn't see enough worth to consider necking the WSM down to .452 or .458, like the way RRA necks down the 50B case for their 458 Socom?

I like the simplicity of brass preparation and look forward to reading of your progress.

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Re: The NEW 500 OSSM

Postby Thom » Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:56 pm

I am VERY interested!
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Re: The NEW 500 OSSM

Postby Rattler » Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:44 am

kurthuhn wrote:My ears just perked up! A big bore AR has been on my list for a while.

Will we be able to order barrels and bolts/carriers to build our own?


On this one, sorry, but probably no. Why? Because unlike some big bores that use over-size bolt-face interiors and/or rebated case rims to fit a 7.62x39 or 6.8 bolt, the 500 OSSM will be made on WSSM parts and components which are not sold separately.

The reason behind this decision by Olympic is NOT to prevent end-users or consumers from being able to have custom fabricated uppers or guns made to individually determined specifications - as this is why Oly supplies two independent gunsmiths with the components so that you can have your custom WSSM upper made exactly how you want it through Dedicated Technology (our beloved D-Tech), or Accuracy Systems (who quite frankly do not do a lot of 'custom' uppers, and are a much lower volume supplier to the marketplace). Rather, Oly does not make these parts available because they are ALL unique parts. The upper, bolt, bolt-carrier, and barrel extension are all uniquely manufactured to accommodate these large case head cartridges. While mechanically, they fit and operate together in the same manner as standard AR15 parts, their relationships are more critical, and we are dealing with MAGNUM cartridges here for the most part, not just your common .223.

Sadly, there are far too many "gunsmiths" out there that have no idea what they are doing with AR's. They call Oly all the time asking questions that they should already know. They also call in the process of making "custom" uppers or barrel, and expect the tech support at Oly to answer all their questions on how to build this custom upper they have no idea how to build correctly. "Headspace? What's that? Don't all bolts work with all barrels? Aren't all these parts made the same? Isn't everything the same "spec?"". Goofs... I guess my point is that most 'smiths and techs are already way to uninformed about the inner workings and technical issues of an AR. Yes, they can assemble them, but when they do not work right from the get-go, have no idea how to fix it. The last thing the public needs is an upper made from obviously Olympic Arms parts that does not work, only to call Oly and find out Oly did not make it. Oly gets enough of that already and has been an historically critical issue, especially in the early days.
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Re: The NEW 500 OSSM

Postby ChrisB » Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:50 am

When will we "officially" get to learn more about this new offering?
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Re: The NEW 500 OSSM

Postby Tim Z » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:06 am

Rattler,

Is it possible to get a rough estimate when Olympic Arms will release the 500 OSSM?

Does Hornady plan to make the 500 a regular run off the shelf ammo or will it be a "special Order? The reason I ask is that I am not in the position to start reloading and really dont want to go down that road right now.

Is there any preliminary balistic information? ie what range distance is Olympic Arms striving to accomplish?


Thanks in advance, We all know that you can only release so much information on the subject and we all do appreciate you sharing the information. :thumbs up:


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Re: The NEW 500 OSSM

Postby Rattler » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:10 am

ChrisB wrote:When will we "officially" get to learn more about this new offering?

When Oly officially announces the cartridge.

When that will be, I have no idea. Brass was sent to Hornady yesterday for die production. Once dies are in hand, testing can begin in earnest and my guess is that an official announcement will come withing 2-3 weeks of that time.

BUT - I always like to give you guys a sneak peek at what's happening!
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Re: The NEW 500 OSSM

Postby ChrisB » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:18 am

Rattler wrote:
ChrisB wrote:When will we "officially" get to learn more about this new offering?

When Oly officially announces the cartridge.

When that will be, I have no idea. Brass was sent to Hornady yesterday for die production. Once dies are in hand, testing can begin in earnest and my guess is that an official announcement will come withing 2-3 weeks of that time.

BUT - I always like to give you guys a sneak peek at what's happening!


Having no idea how long this whole process takes are we talking before spring, summer, Q3, after the 12/21/12 apocalypse? Sorry for all the questions but it's always exciting to see the platform grow.
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Re: The NEW 500 OSSM

Postby Rattler » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:03 am

Tim Z wrote: Rattler,

Is it possible to get a rough estimate when Olympic Arms will release the 500 OSSM?


I'd say we are 90 days out MINIMUM.

Tim Z wrote:Does Hornady plan to make the 500 a regular run off the shelf ammo or will it be a "special Order? The reason I ask is that I am not in the position to start reloading and really don't want to go down that road right now.

That will probably be up to Olympic Arms. If enough interest can be drummed up in advance, I'd venture a guess that as long as Hornady looks at this as being profitable for them, that they'd make the ammo under the Hornady brand. I think there will be sufficient demand. Otherwise, Oly will surely have some made for them as well.

Keep in mind that it is never Olympic Arms' desire to introduce a new caliber or new technology to the Ar market and keep it secret or proprietary to the point where the only place you can get it is from Olympic Arms. Colt tried that, and all it did was alienate them from the consumer and create a cottage industry of aftermarket copies that ended up being better than what Colt made anyway. You might think this is the case with the WSSM's, and I can see where that thought might come to mind. But the reality is that the WSSM products are so different, and there are so many unique tuning issues with those parts that Olympic just doesn't feel safe selling the component parts to the Johnny next door basement gunsmith or consumer. This is why custom work is available from Dtech and ASI. It makes it so that the consumer can get exactly what they want if Oly doesn't offer it, and yet Olympic can still be confident that the end product will be safely made thereby providing a satisfactory experience for the consumer.

Tim Z wrote:Is there any preliminary ballistic information? ie what range distance is Olympic Arms striving to accomplish?

No ballistic numbers yet except what is computer generated, and they look promising to ay the least. Oly is confident that ballistics will be superior to ever other big-bore offering right now on the Ar platform. It should easily exceed the 500 S&W and 50 Boewulf in all categories.
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Re: The NEW 500 OSSM

Postby Hoot » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:15 am

Not to beat this to death and though I think I have your answer from your other replies, I wanted to separate this specifically out of that body of text.

If a capable person has purchased and owns an Oly sanctioned 300 OSSM, can they just buy the barrel, bolt and magazine, or barrel, headspace gauge and magazine? I know that given a properly trimmed case is provided, several manufacturers will make you a headspace gauge. Not trying to game the system. Just trying to respect your sovereignty over the supply while allow some alternative options for folks who already own one of your WSSM products.

It's a darn shame that manufacturers, at this point in time, still have to live in fear of Rick's attorney. IMHO, IP law has become a travesty in some regards.

BTW, what does your "computer program" predict the case capacity of H2O to be?

Thanks,

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Re: The NEW 500 OSSM

Postby Rattler » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:18 am

Hoot wrote:If a capable person has purchased and owns an Oly sanctioned 300 OSSM, can they just buy the barrel, bolt and magazine, or barrel, headspace gauge and magazine? I know that given a properly trimmed case is provided, several manufacturers will make you a headspace gauge. Not trying to game the system. Just trying to respect your sovereignty over the supply while allow some alternative options for folks who already own one of your WSSM products.


No. for the simple reason that individuals do not have product liability insurance if nothing else. I know the next retort would be, "but you sell standard AR15 kits!", to which my response would be, yes, Oly does sell parts and kits. But those parts and kits are public domain designs and prints to which the user is aware. Olympic Arms holds no specific liability over someone else's designs, but they do theirs. The WSSM is CLEARLY an only only design, making them bear the brunt of all responsibility.

There would be other issues to, including but not limited to, tuning these particular parts. No disrespect you Hoot (for I know you to be a more than qualified user, perhaps more than anyone we know) or any reader for that matter, but having a working model in hand, does not in itself make the user and expert in how it works. Especially when the bulk of the work that people are familiar with is the loading of ammunition, not the assembling of the finished product from the raw parts out of the box and untouched.

Hoot wrote:It's a darn shame that manufacturers, at this point in time, still have to live in fear of Rick's attorney. IMHO, IP law has become a travesty in some regards.
Yeah, kinda, but then again it makes sense too. What I see in the AR15, is a unique industry. It has been in the public domain for so long that the average Joe thinks he's got this thing licked. And if not, he'll just go to some on-line gun expert who will in turn tell them how it's properly done. Well, on the surface that seems like an awesome system. But behind the scenes, manufacturers and brand names are named as defendants EVERY DAY in new law suits by some clown that thought he knew what he was doing and got hurt. Some are legitimate, most are not, but ALL cost a great deal of money to defend, all in the end to provve that the they that was not qualified to assemble his AR15 (headspace? What's headspace), was truly not qualified to assemble his AR15.

Hoot wrote:BTW, what does your "computer program" predict the case capacity of H2O to be?


Do not have access to that data. Sorry.
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